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This Bothers Me
Somewhat.
Behind the cut. Because there are some spoilers. Not that anyone who reads this doesn't KNOW the spoilers, but...just in case....
In every instance I can think of where there is mass death on the show, I tend to glaze over the impact. Instead, I focus on the danger to the team. It's "Oh no, Owen!" or "Oh no, Tosh!" or "Oh no, Gwen!" or "Oh no, Ianto!" Hell, it's even often "Oh no, Jack!" despite knowing that he can't die.
But think about it (and I'm just using a couple of episodes as reference points).
I'll start with End of Days, just because.
We've got this...creepy demon. It kills a whole bunch of people. They just...drop dead. Completely. And the whole while, I'm focusing on the team. Five people. Not the dozens crowding the streets. The mothers wives brothers sisters sons friends roommates cousins bosses whose lives are, really, just as important.
It's almost as if it isn't serious, as though the bodies were merely props used to symbolize the danger to these five people.
I understand that we've followed Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Owen, and Tosh (and Rhys and Andy, too), so their safety would be what we focused on, their deaths the ones we'd mourn with greater urgency. But something about it all still feels off.
And really, wasn't Gwen supposed to bring that humanity? I never really cared for one of her little "pet" projects in human understanding. But Ianto silently tearing up at the end of From Out of the Rain makes me feel something. I know nothing about that boy. Nothing. And I care. More, even, then I did in Adrift.
I think that that's what Random Shoes was trying to do. To an extent, it did, because I really liked Eugene. But using Gwen as the vehicle might have been the wrong choice. And I cared for the woman in A Day in the Death, too. But it was all peripheral. And even that's not the point.
At the culmination of S2, I didn't really care that all of Cardiff had blown up. I didn't care about the casualties, the WHOLE FAMILIES who perished. Why? Because two people I cared about died. Yes, well. It was distracting from the human impact. Two people versus a whole city. That is how one feels when grieving, I know, but again...something seems strange about it the more I contemplate.
The woman with the pram in Sleeper may have been an alien. But her husband or wife/boyfriend or girlfriend, her child, her parents and siblings, didn't know that. All they know is that she is never coming home to them. That she's gone forever. She won't be making toast in the morning when her partner comes downstairs, she won't be singing lullabies to her child when s/he fusses. And that's irrevocably sad. They will mourn her for years.
Even CoE. Yes, Ianto dies. Yes, I have a vested interest in Ianto. Yes, I am devastated. But he isn't the only one. There is a building full of people dying. People with families, people with wants and desires and dreams and ambitions and hangups and foibles. The impact of that never reaches me. If done properly, they could have let Ianto live and worked in a way (with all of these people, all their humanness!) for me to be bawling even more than I did. And that would've been the much greater impact.
The body count in this show is so so so high. But bodies aren't props; the humanity doesn't come from Gwen, but from caring about all of these people who just cease to exist. I can't tell if that was done on purpose, a way to point out our own selfish proclivities or our jaded sensibilities, or was just a ham-fisted attempt at illustrating the danger of whatever Big Bad they were facing.
But Elizabeth Perkins had just gotten a new job and was about to call her mother to tell her. Gerald Kingsly was walking back from the jewelers, working out how he'd propose to his girlfriend after six years of dating (and he still wasn't sure he'd say yes). Harold from accounting was bitching on the phone to Jessica about the new payroll system and thinking about what he was going to do for lunch. Netty Smith was screaming at her mother about how it was her life, god damn it, and she'd dye her hair whatever color she damn well pleased. John Jacobson III had been drinking a cup of coffee and wondering what exactly he was supposed to do with himself now that his wife left him for his best friend, his son tugging on his sleeve barely registering in the haze of depression that had overtaken him.
And now they're all dead.
Who will tell their stories? I guess I have to.
Thus, a new plot bunny was born.
Behind the cut. Because there are some spoilers. Not that anyone who reads this doesn't KNOW the spoilers, but...just in case....
In every instance I can think of where there is mass death on the show, I tend to glaze over the impact. Instead, I focus on the danger to the team. It's "Oh no, Owen!" or "Oh no, Tosh!" or "Oh no, Gwen!" or "Oh no, Ianto!" Hell, it's even often "Oh no, Jack!" despite knowing that he can't die.
But think about it (and I'm just using a couple of episodes as reference points).
I'll start with End of Days, just because.
We've got this...creepy demon. It kills a whole bunch of people. They just...drop dead. Completely. And the whole while, I'm focusing on the team. Five people. Not the dozens crowding the streets. The mothers wives brothers sisters sons friends roommates cousins bosses whose lives are, really, just as important.
It's almost as if it isn't serious, as though the bodies were merely props used to symbolize the danger to these five people.
I understand that we've followed Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Owen, and Tosh (and Rhys and Andy, too), so their safety would be what we focused on, their deaths the ones we'd mourn with greater urgency. But something about it all still feels off.
And really, wasn't Gwen supposed to bring that humanity? I never really cared for one of her little "pet" projects in human understanding. But Ianto silently tearing up at the end of From Out of the Rain makes me feel something. I know nothing about that boy. Nothing. And I care. More, even, then I did in Adrift.
I think that that's what Random Shoes was trying to do. To an extent, it did, because I really liked Eugene. But using Gwen as the vehicle might have been the wrong choice. And I cared for the woman in A Day in the Death, too. But it was all peripheral. And even that's not the point.
At the culmination of S2, I didn't really care that all of Cardiff had blown up. I didn't care about the casualties, the WHOLE FAMILIES who perished. Why? Because two people I cared about died. Yes, well. It was distracting from the human impact. Two people versus a whole city. That is how one feels when grieving, I know, but again...something seems strange about it the more I contemplate.
The woman with the pram in Sleeper may have been an alien. But her husband or wife/boyfriend or girlfriend, her child, her parents and siblings, didn't know that. All they know is that she is never coming home to them. That she's gone forever. She won't be making toast in the morning when her partner comes downstairs, she won't be singing lullabies to her child when s/he fusses. And that's irrevocably sad. They will mourn her for years.
Even CoE. Yes, Ianto dies. Yes, I have a vested interest in Ianto. Yes, I am devastated. But he isn't the only one. There is a building full of people dying. People with families, people with wants and desires and dreams and ambitions and hangups and foibles. The impact of that never reaches me. If done properly, they could have let Ianto live and worked in a way (with all of these people, all their humanness!) for me to be bawling even more than I did. And that would've been the much greater impact.
The body count in this show is so so so high. But bodies aren't props; the humanity doesn't come from Gwen, but from caring about all of these people who just cease to exist. I can't tell if that was done on purpose, a way to point out our own selfish proclivities or our jaded sensibilities, or was just a ham-fisted attempt at illustrating the danger of whatever Big Bad they were facing.
But Elizabeth Perkins had just gotten a new job and was about to call her mother to tell her. Gerald Kingsly was walking back from the jewelers, working out how he'd propose to his girlfriend after six years of dating (and he still wasn't sure he'd say yes). Harold from accounting was bitching on the phone to Jessica about the new payroll system and thinking about what he was going to do for lunch. Netty Smith was screaming at her mother about how it was her life, god damn it, and she'd dye her hair whatever color she damn well pleased. John Jacobson III had been drinking a cup of coffee and wondering what exactly he was supposed to do with himself now that his wife left him for his best friend, his son tugging on his sleeve barely registering in the haze of depression that had overtaken him.
And now they're all dead.
Who will tell their stories? I guess I have to.
Thus, a new plot bunny was born.
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*feeds plot bunnies*
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But then again, this is quite the norm with entertainment of the 'hero' genre. Despite the fact that these heroes exist to save people, in the end, it is always easier to both portray and feel for the heroes more than for the people who are collateral damage. Also, for a show that is 40 minutes long, it is easier to focus on the main characters than on peripheral ones that may never turn up again.
Though the writers could have tried to make us feel for the 'other people' through the reactions of the team to the destruction around them (that's kind of Gwen's role I guess, though her 'humane' focus is often quite selfish), in the episodes where there was a high body count, TW itself suffered loses, so their loss comes to the forefront again. And as for the episodes with lower ones... well, it's pointed out quite often that TW has the tendency to be quite callous of the deaths of the 'ignorant' masses.
Yeah... anyway, that's my opinion on the matter. It would be great if we could debate this or something. :) Thanks for bringing this up.
And we've always got fanfic to make up for what canon lacks. *feeds plot bunnies too*
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This... I never really thought about this *hangs head in shame* i... i have the problem where i agreed with the man on CoE. there are too many people in this world. i dont agree that innocent children should suffer.. and i feel for the families of those who died. but... the world cannot sustain us all. *shrugs sadly* i have very strong opinions on the subject.
i would love to read these stories though. :)
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I hope you don't mind me debating this, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that.
Each TW episode is 40 minutes long. They have to stuff in the plot, the "alien of the week", the characters and even then there are fans complaining that "so-and-so didn't get enough screentime, f*** you, RTD".
I agree with Saria that they attempted to do that with "Random Shoes", trying to see TW from the perspective of an outsider, but that didn't go very well. "Random Shoes" is one of the least liked TW episodes, many fans claiming that it was boring. It probably didn't help that it was Gwen-centric (I must admit I was one of those fans at first; now I find it provides interesting insight to how TW sees the "ignorant masses". They are quite callous and dismissive of the people they protect. We're just the silly people getting into trouble with aliens and dumb enough to not notice what is staring at us right in the face. TW and DW go on quite a lot that we humans aren't quite perceptive about a lot of things.)
I digress, but the point is, BBC also has to make money. And since ratings and reviews have shown that the viewers prefer action or Janto heavy episodes, the "Random Shoes" type episodes take less precedence. It shows how we viewers think, I guess and... well, I suppose we're not much for the POV of the normal populace.
TW is also a show that a lot of people watch for escapism. I've read many complaints about COE saying that it was "too realistic" (to be honest, I'm one of them; I like my TW weirdness, snark, crack and sex, thanks). I mean, we all watch TW (I'm assuming this, never mind that it makes me an ass) wishing we were part of it, that we got to shag Jack/Ianto/Owen/Tosh/Gwen/Janet/Myfanwy, that we got to drive around Cardiff in an SUV while waving guns. Who wants to watch a show about a woman lamenting that her husband got killed by a Weevil. About a family trying to rebuild their lives after the Cardiff bombings? We get enough about this in the news every day, we don't want to see this in our TV show too. We want to be heroes.
Anyway, that's all I have to say for now. Sorry for this long post and sorry if I come across as condescending/patronising/heavy-handed. Feel free to flame/argue/debate further on this topic with me. :)
PS: I've read somewhere that after Abaddon was destroyed, the people came back to life (silly if you ask me, but that would explain TW's apathy regarding the matter).
PPS: I think BBC made a mistake by making COE very political. I personally don't think that DW handles that subject well, and as we can see in Season 5 (post COE) everything's hunky dory (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm more of TW fan than a DW fan, so I don't pay as much attention to DW). I'm hoping that S4 of TW will deal with the ramifications to the events in COE but... we'll see.
Whoops, rambled off again, sorry!
And if you've read all of this, thanks. :)
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And no feeding the plot bunnies. They're already getting fat!
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And I know they have a time limit, but other shows are successful in balancing the main characters with the deaths of other "less important" people. I'm not a director or producer or writer or any of those things, but I'm sure that there is a way that it could be done.
I think part of the problem is that, overall, in these mass death scenes, we don't see their eyes (figuratively speaking, that is). We are simply shown bodies running and we are expected to have already been conditioned enough by television to understand that this is terrifying and devastating. For all we know, half the time, it's a bunch of fans running after David Tennant (I bet you, if you watch it out of context, it would seem that way. It does in my head, anyway! ;))
There is more to this, I know, but I need to collect my thoughts some (and also...sleep....yes!)
Thanks for commenting and I absolutely love debating, so feel free any time. Toss out an idea whenever and know that any opinions, so long as they are respectfully expressed, are more than welcome here! :-D
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That sounds horrible. Let me rephrase that.
I agree with your statement that Earth is overpopulated and that something must happen to stabilize said population.
:)
That said, I still want to be made to feel something when it does happen.
(As for the stories....some day. When I finish the 21839127389 things I'm attempting to work on. AHHH! lol)
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Maybe it's intentional? Sort of, we are in TW's shoes and as the viewer we not only experience their close-knit familial bonds, but also how much they are cut off from everyday human life. Sort of like... who watches the watchmen? What are these fucked up people who think so litte about us doing saving our lives? (Okay, I admit that that's too far a stretch).
On the side of the fault of the writers... well, these are the people who gave us alien sex gas, cybermen in heels and COE. ;)
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"Look, Gwen's so empathic and sweet and humane!"
"How's that, then?"
"Because we're telling you she is. Duh."
TW is also a show that a lot of people watch for escapism. I've read many complaints about COE saying that it was "too realistic" (to be honest, I'm one of them; I like my TW weirdness, snark, crack and sex, thanks).
I've made this argument myself many times. I admit, however, that I'm torn.
As someone who has heavy appreciation for drama, I laud what they were trying to do. Truth of the matter is that I seriously commend the writers for giving me characters that I care about so much. That the thought of Ianto's, Owen's, and Tosh's deaths months after watching the series can still make my stomach turn with anxiety and grief is pretty amazing. That's good script and good acting.
That said, I agree that I get plenty of reality as it is. When I want something close to reality, I'll watch Law and Order or the History Channel. But this is a show with aliens and time travel and a man who can't stay dead who comes from the future and has lived through the past and a PTERODACTYL, for goodness' sake. I am NOT watching TW (or DW) for reality.
I don't want lament so much as I want to sit and wonder, while I imagine being the hero, what if I were there in that position. The threat to TW is lessened in my eyes when the threat to the rest of the world is glossed over. Does that make sense? In my mind, it almost cheapens their deaths. I'm not saying that it should be done in every single episode, because that would cheapen it, too.
I was catching up on Fringe a while ago and, looking back, I think it handles it better. There is something about it (and I haven't studied media enough to put a label on it) that makes me feel the urgency more. Is it the acting of the extras/guest stars? Is it the writing? The camera angles? The directing? I'm not sure. I know it's a different show, but it manages to incorporate the small pieces of life in a way that isn't overbearing, but makes you think. It makes the viewer more aware of the danger.
Smaller dangers on Fringe seem larger than the biggest dangers on TW. That said, I still love TW more. Maybe it's the accents. ;-)
And ramble all you want! :-D
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I think this is a completely valid point. And I also think that THAT may also be where they went wrong with Gwen. "Okay," they tell us. "She's the humanity." And so we shrug, accept it, and figure she'll deal with that part so we don't have to worry.
And maybe it is that I'm jaded, the more I think about it. I get mad at her for pushing, for being upset about hiding/switching/incinerating bodies, for prancing her tarted-up empathy about like it's a prize-winning show poodle.
On the side of the fault of the writers... well, these are the people who gave us alien sex gas, cybermen in heels...
That's it EXACTLY. How do they give us that and then say "Oooh, look, we're a dark drama where people you care about die starting...NOW! Look, they're dropping like flies." What the hell? Who do they think they are? There is no balance. Even the chaos of real life has a balance to it.
Don't get me wrong. I love this show in an inexplicable way. Doesn't mean I understand where they're going with it all the time.
And now I'm ranting and getting all off focus so I will stop rambling now! lol
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I agree. Plot holes and occasional bad writing aside, the characters are the best part of TW.
Fan devotion (including my own) towards the TW characters scares me sometimes. I've looked it up on the Internet; Ianto is the only fictional character at the current moment having a physical and well-known shrine. The only other characters I can think of that would merit one too would be Sherlock Holmes (wrong time) and Harry Potter (not dead).
Fringe! I have to rewatch that again sometime.
I've made that comparison too before and the only thing I could come up with was that was, um, that Fringe took itself more seriously. Not saying that TW didn't, but yeah, like you said, the sense of danger in Fringe is a lot more real. In Torchwood there's still the sense that you can walk away from it, even as a civilian. Or maybe there's the Doctor's save-the-day omnipresence in TW, which sort of lightens it (killed that in COE though). Or it could simply be the aliens/threats. To be honest, none of the aliens in TW and NewWho freak me out (except the Weeping Angels). But Fringe... *shudders*
But... yeah, I still love TW more too. :DD
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At first, I was meh about her. Then I though she was dumb. Then, after I jumped aboard the Janto ship, I hated her.
I get the feeling that one of the reason I dislike her is because of all the TW characters, I would most likely be her (the quiz on BBC's TW site agrees, lol). More cynical, not that goody-two-shoes, but I would be Gwen. And to be honest, I understand why she does what she does. She has this dream of saving the world, but she still has a "normal life" and doesn't want to give that up. Don't we all want that? I can understand why she sleeps with Owen, why she lusts after Jack, why she can be a selfish bitch at times because I can't say I wouldn't do that too, were I in her shoes. And maybe that's why I dislike her so (though I like her a lot more now, unless I read Gwen/Jack).
I feel that she would have been liked a lot more if her "speschul normalness" hadn't been shoved down our throats so. Sigh.
I have no answer to that. TW has more mood swings than a hormonal teenager. I think that's the hard part of having a "dark" spin-off to a TV series with a lower body count. You sort of have to prove that it's "dark" and when the sex or dysfunctional r'ships don't do that, well, you just kill them. Did work in the end.
I think I'd better stop rambling too. But I did enjoy this debate and thanks for bringing up this topic. My plot bunnies finally breeding (somewhat) again after a dry spell; I owe you. :)
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As for my earlier comment about the writers not being intelligent - I meant it in such a way as to say they should have decided better whether the show was going to be an alien-of-the-week show, which wouldn't have needed much in the way of character development, or a more character-based show, kind of like BSG did. We could still have had the danger the staff of Torchwood had to face, but learned more about each, grown to like or dislike on their own real merits by watching them truly interact. A real reaction, like that shown by Gwen in Adrift, or Ianto in From Out Of The Rain. That's when we had the chance to delve a little deeper into each character. I think the writers missed the mark - they tried to straddle the line, or jump back and forth too often without truly setting a goal. Then, bam, lets be all dramatic, we're the adult version of DW, so we'll shock the hell out of our audience. I know it's a short programme, it's hard to bring a new character and get to know them well. That is why I think TW would have been a great show that wasn't just one distinct episode after another. It would have been great if things flowed more smoothly from one show to the next, with incidentals thrown in and the reactions of the team as they grow.
Aargh, I don't think I'm articulating that well. Blame it on a long day with no sleep.