Stuff That I Think

[sariagray]

 I am sitting here at my coworker's house. I have been housesitting for her for, oh, a few days now. We got a blizzard. Someone was supposed to take care of the driveway. That someone never came. Now I'm waiting for AAA to come and get me out of the ridiculous amount of snow. I will be ridiculously late to work. 

That said, I am therefore going to rant about TW. Because I can.

There has been a lot of 'stuff' about Gwen-bashing lately. I think both sides are being ridiculous. I will say that I sort of have no opinions on Gwen - sometimes I like her, sometimes I don't. And, quite frankly, I don't relate to her one bit. I also don't relate to Jack. They're both up there in the "character's whose motivations I only understand on an intellectual level, rather than a personal level" list. 

Which is part of my problem with the proposed Season 4 of TW. I don't foresee myself relating to ANY of the characters that have been put forth so far. Except Rhys. Rhyswood would be fun to watch. But this is why I still "hold a grudge." The three major characters with whom I could actually identify have been killed. 

I know, I'm weird, but I just don't like Jack all that much. I don't dislike him, either, mind, but I'm not much of a fan. I'm sort of...meh. I only liked him when he was with Ianto. I feel the exact same way about Gwen (well, except that last bit, unless there was an episode I missed...). Owen, Tosh, Ianto, John Hart, Rhys, Andy? Love them to pieces. And they're all dead or underutilized. And, truth be told, I'm not into any of the actors, really. Except Kai, but that's only because I know he's a sweetheart. So, no, probably won't be watching Season 4. 

This is such an inelegant rant so far. Sorry.

ALSO - Why do authors consistently feel the need to make both Jack and Ianto gay? It is jarring. What makes their relationship so much more is that, for both of them, gender plays no issue. Maybe for different reasons, but still. One thing RTD gave us was characters who do not fit into sexual boxes. And that's really important. Ianto is not gay. Jack is not gay. Ianto is not 'confused' about his sexuality; he's just in love with a person. Jack is not flamboyantly gay; he's just in love with everyone. Pansexual, omnisexual, whatever. At least, that's how I see it.I don't begrudge authors who like to challenge Ianto's sexuality. I get it. Maybe I've just come across a wild crop of these things, I dunno. But either way, the past x amount of stories I read that do this just make me crazy. It sort of diminishes the importance of the relationship and seems to imply that they need to fit into these roles; which is completely against the message of the show. In my opinion, anyway.

Still no sign of the cavalry to rescue my car, but I think I'm done for now.

That is all.

 

Comments

[thebuttonontop.livejournal.com]

I rather agree with you. Its funny, I keep hearing that there's all this anti Gwen stuff (you're the second person I've read this from) and I haven't seen it really. *shrug* I like Gwen. when she's not 1. cheating on her husband. 2. lying about everything. 3. making moony eyes at Jack. 4. being not-Gwen. Which sadly is about 10 percent of the time. *shrug*

I have fallen for Jack as I think many have. This is not to say I relate to him in the slightest. As we've seen with my attempts to write him. heh. I can't write Jack at all. Which is apparently the actual problem with Part 4.

And I completely agree with you on the sexuality thing. It does get rather silly...

heh hope you get out soon, hun.

[sariagray.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the main bit of Gwen-Bashing that started it. I saw the bashing of the bashing. Me? I just wanna bash everyone to BITS.

I know many have fallen for Jack and I don't begrudge them that one bit. I can see why. I'm just...well. Like I said, I don't dislike him. I think of him more as a...device. I dunno. It doesn't help that he is my boss. Minus the libido (I think).

I got out! The drive is now plowed, too. Huzzah! :)

[analineblue.livejournal.com]

I really feel much the same way as you do about Jack and Gwen.With Gwen, sometimes I think she's awesome, and other times she annoys me a bit, but I think that's mostly because like you said, I don't really identify with her? Honestly, I identify with her a lot more as she's usually written in fanfic than I do with how she's written on the show. XD;;

And Jack... Jack is still a mystery to me too. Not as much as he was when I first started in the fandom, because at first I really didn't like him at all? ^^; But as I've written him more, I think I've sort of come to understand parts of him, and maybe even identify with him on some levels?

I don't know about this new TW though... I guess it depends a lot on what they're going to do with Jack, really. Because I could get into seeing him interact with these new characters...if it's handled okay, and he just doesn't... I don't know, up and shag them one by one? XD;;

And I also haven't really experienced the Gwen bashing you mention, though I've heard about it too. And really don't approve. :/ I mean, RTD has made it pretty clear that she's not going anywhere. >_> I think you can either like her and look past it, or just stop watching, really. XD;

[/disjointed comment, lol] @_@

[sariagray.livejournal.com]

You know, it's funny. Ianto, Owen, and Tosh all annoy the hell out of me at times. They're totally flawed. But I love them. And I agree with that point on identifying with her more in fanfic. Isn't that funny? We're supposed to identify with Gwen, but we don't until someone comes along and "fixes" her for us?

I think saying that I don't like Jack isn't quite right. I think I just see him peripherally. It's only when he's with Ianto that I start to notice him more. I think that says something.

As for bashing, I don't get it, period. Honestly, if one wants to write something without her, that's fine. But why run any character through the wringer? And if one wants to bash someone, one should make up a character for that purpose! lol :)

[analineblue.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I totally agree. They're all so flawed, and I totally love them anyway. ;) Gwen has been completely redeemed by fic, for me. ;) Now I see her as Ianto's friend...as Jack's friend, etc. It's...weird. :P

I'm really much the same way, with Jack. I was never enamored with him like some people are, I guess? And I do find some aspects of him to be really interesting, but it's his relationship with Ianto that's led me there, you know?

Yeah, I actually don't get at all why it's such a huge thing, people wanting to bash her. :/ To me it just makes things less fun in general, if you're spending your time focusing on a character you don't like, you know? Just write the characters you love and be done with it. ....And yeah, bash your original characters if you have to do something. ;)

[sariagray.livejournal.com]

SO I'm traveling in the past, looking for something. And I stumble upon this. Which is hilarious in retrospect. ;)

[bk_forever]

I agree with almost all of your rant (though I loathe Gwen the way she's written on the show, and that's not going to change!), except that I do like Jack a lot.

The sexuality issue annoys me for the same reasons it annoys you - it was never an issue on the show until CoE, they were just two people in a relationship and the fact they were both the same sex didn't matter. They'd both had serious relationships with women before, now they were in a same sex relationship just because they were attracted to each other. I liked that no one made a big deal of it .

[sariagray.livejournal.com]

Thank you! You know, as much as I was frustrated with CoE, I loved Ianto's bit about it only being Jack. I'm sure I've mentioned it before. :) It just spoke volumes, that it had nothing to do with gender and everythng to do with people. There was something so lovely about that, so resonating and deep and beautiful. I wish they had the opportunity to explore that more.

[bk_forever]

Sometimes, the whole relationship as seen on the show feels like a catalogue of wasted opportunities. Gwen and Rhys' very ordinary relationship was explored time and again, while all the complexities of the Jack/Ianto relationship (boss/employee; older, very experienced man/much younger man; immortal/mortal; falling in love with the man who killed the shell that was all that was left of your beloved girlfriend and who you really should hate....) were ignored and glossed over. There was tremendous potential there, but it was squandered in favour of showing a standard kind of relationship everyone's already seen a million times. I found that maddeningly frustrating.

[jedi-harkness.livejournal.com]

Hope you get rescued soon, sweetheart...

I've always made clear that I don't really hate Gwen. I think you hit the nail on the head: I've just never identified with her. I'm with Button: I like her when she's not cheating on her husband, making cow-eyes at Jack, or bullshitting. She also irked me whenever she whined or seemed to marginalize(sp?) Ianto.

I've been madly in love with Jack from the start: He's the whole reason I began following the show. I see what you mean, though: How can you identify with an immortal from the 51st century? I've heard people talk about how CoE left him irredeemable: That's up for debate but the profound tragedy of it just made me want to wrap my arms around him. (Guess that makes me Ianto.)

It's okay if Jack and Ianto are portrayed as gay in AU fic but it does bother me if they're presented as such in a fic that's supposedly in canon. What I love most about their romance is that it did transend gender stereotypes. One of the reasons that the SIJ comms get so extreme is that he's seen as a gay role model. I've commented on a few other web sites pointing out he wasn't gay. RTD wrote him the best line: "It's not men. It's him, it's only him."

I'm excited about the new series but I'm nervous about where Jack's story direction will go. I hope there will be some acknowledgement of Ianto...