A Lot of Jack, A Bit of Time.
Aug. 24th, 2011 05:43 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sariagrayThere isn’t much to connect these points, other than that they were things I thought of before falling asleep last night (oh, the bedtime stories we tell ourselves!). They are all Jack, and they all relate, somewhat, to time.
There are spoilers up through 4.07 in here, too.
The first point I have to make assumes that the flashbacks in 4.07 were of Jack taking the slow path, prior to reuniting with the Doctor. There are numerous problems with this, but that’s what I’m ultimately taking as personal canon until proven otherwise.
Basically, Jack tells Angelo about the Doctor and his Companions. The implication is that Jack will be the Doctor, Angelo will be his companion. He will impart this wonderful knowledge and they will run a lot, and Jack will change Angelo’s life for the better. He’ll make this backwards village boy, this conman, a better person. Maybe he sees Angelo as he sees his past self.
And then, Angelo commits the ultimate betrayal and tells Caiaphas et al that Jack is in the garden of Gethsemane. Well, close enough. They beat him and killed him over and over. (And remember when I wrote my Torchwood take on Jesus Christ Superstar? Angelo just totally kicked John Hart out for the role of Judas.)
This betrayal? It is made even worse because Jack is self-flagellant and Angelo just confirmed that Jack would be as good as the Doctor. Never. Because the Doctor’s companions, as far as Jack knows, don’t betray him beyond disobeying instructions to 1) stay in the Tardis and 2) not get captured. Or, if they do, it’s never personal. It’s never out of ultimate hatred or fear. It’s always for the Doctor’s benefit, or the greater good of the world (whichever world that may be at the time), or love.
And this is where Ianto comes in. Despite having been so painfully and utterly betrayed, Jack forgives Ianto’s many betrayals. First, and most glaringly obvious, is Lisa. This is a betrayal that causes death – both Jack’s and that of other innocent parties. But, despite Ianto lashing out, the physical betrayal (bringing Lisa into the Hub) has nothing to do with Jack whatsoever. He may have used and manipulated Jack, but if we listen to Machiavelli, it’s completely justified. He did it to save his lover, and he did it without wishing to harm anyone else. He was truly convinced that he could save her.
Honestly, that’s what makes a Companion. The steadfastness, the capacity for love, the passion and the fire. Jack knows this, recognizes it for what it is, and that is why he can forgive Ianto.
Later, Ianto betrays Jack again when the team goes to open the rift, and again in giving Gwen the location of Flat Holm, and again in the House of the Dead (if you consider this to be canon). Each time, it was to save the world, or Jack, or both.
Opening the rift in End of Days was supposed to save the world. Lisa doesn’t tell Ianto that she’ll come back if he opens the rift. No, she says, “There's only one way to stop this, before things get worse. People will die, Ianto. Thousands of people. Unless you open the Rift.”
Disobeying Jack’s obvious stance on Gwen’s involvement in Flat Holm was for the betterment of the island itself (I’m convinced that, while he doesn’t think Gwen will give up, he also thinks she can help) and to lessen the burden on Jack.
In The House of the Dead, Ianto lies outright to Jack in order to successfully close the rift AND to keep Jack from this suicidal notion of floating in oblivion for the rest of eternity. His last act was his final betrayal and even then, it was for the greater good of the people he loves.
This is why, despite his previous experience with betrayal and its relative pain, Jack can forgive and stand by Ianto fully trusting in him. He may not be able to trust that Ianto will always be honest, or follow orders, but he can trust that Ianto has his (and the world’s) best interests at heart. Ianto makes Jack feel like he can be as good as the Doctor, if not better, and that’s extremely important to his character.
Now, some other things about Jack (and, vaguely, time).
A common thing I’ve seen in both fic and discussion is Jack’s supposed inability to use modern technology. I know, I’m pretty sure I’ve used it before myself. But I was considering it last night, and it doesn’t really make sense.
I understand that, when familiar with advanced technology, archaic forms are more difficult to master despite their “simplicity” and limited natures. Say we were sent back in time and had to craft something. I know I would be at a loss if settled in front of a loom and told to work it, despite my ability to use a contemporary sewing machine.
However, if you sent me back in time and I spent years around people who used looms, if I watched those looms being invented and advertised and settled into homes, of course I would be able to figure it out. It’s no different than any new invention now. We don’t have inbred knowledge of how it works – we learn. Jack has spent over a hundred years on Earth (I’m counting only time spent active and…not buried underground). There is no reason why he’d be incapable of using a microwave. Not in 2008, at any rate. Perhaps when he first had to use one, sure, but not after decades of their existence in society.
Jack is extremely intelligent. He is not only educated, he’s street smart. He’s had more experiences than most people, even before becoming a fixed point. A clever man whose lived through a chain of inventions. He’s watched, slowly, the world go from the Teleprinter to the iPhone. He’s probably had to use everything in between at some point or another. It’s like the montage in Fragments. (Here from 7:08-7:51).
Another thing I see a lot of, and have abused myself, is the concept of Jack’s memory. Do I think it possible for Jack to remember Ianto in “a thousand years’ time” without actively and constantly working at it? No, of course not. But it’s not impossible to imagine that he can recall 160 years’ time with a good deal of accuracy.
I know it’s difficult for us to imagine due to two things: youth and old age. Personally, I don’t remember much of when I was five years old. I am twenty four now. This doesn’t mean that my brain only has the capacity to store nineteen years of information. However, at five, my brain was developing and I was learning so many high-level concepts that everything else was quickly forgotten in favor of things like effective communication and socially acceptable behaviors.
And then, at the end of one’s life, memory fades. It doesn’t have as much to do with the amount of time that has passed, but the deterioration of the brain itself.
Jack’s brain has been preserved at the capacity and health of someone in their 30s/40s. His capacity for memory is huge and the added knowledge that he has to remember certainly helps. It isn’t endless storage space (unless being fixed point also “fixes” his memories for eternity, which would be an interesting concept to explore), and it certainly would require effort, but it’s not impossible.
I don’t imagine that he’d remember everything ever. I sure as hell can’t recall what I had for breakfast last week, or even what the last movie I saw in theaters might have been, but that is all trivial information. If Jack considers something important enough to remember, I have absolutely no doubts that he would be able to accomplish it for a good length of time.
And that’s…well, that’s all I have to say for now.
*Wanders off*
There are spoilers up through 4.07 in here, too.
The first point I have to make assumes that the flashbacks in 4.07 were of Jack taking the slow path, prior to reuniting with the Doctor. There are numerous problems with this, but that’s what I’m ultimately taking as personal canon until proven otherwise.
Basically, Jack tells Angelo about the Doctor and his Companions. The implication is that Jack will be the Doctor, Angelo will be his companion. He will impart this wonderful knowledge and they will run a lot, and Jack will change Angelo’s life for the better. He’ll make this backwards village boy, this conman, a better person. Maybe he sees Angelo as he sees his past self.
And then, Angelo commits the ultimate betrayal and tells Caiaphas et al that Jack is in the garden of Gethsemane. Well, close enough. They beat him and killed him over and over. (And remember when I wrote my Torchwood take on Jesus Christ Superstar? Angelo just totally kicked John Hart out for the role of Judas.)
This betrayal? It is made even worse because Jack is self-flagellant and Angelo just confirmed that Jack would be as good as the Doctor. Never. Because the Doctor’s companions, as far as Jack knows, don’t betray him beyond disobeying instructions to 1) stay in the Tardis and 2) not get captured. Or, if they do, it’s never personal. It’s never out of ultimate hatred or fear. It’s always for the Doctor’s benefit, or the greater good of the world (whichever world that may be at the time), or love.
And this is where Ianto comes in. Despite having been so painfully and utterly betrayed, Jack forgives Ianto’s many betrayals. First, and most glaringly obvious, is Lisa. This is a betrayal that causes death – both Jack’s and that of other innocent parties. But, despite Ianto lashing out, the physical betrayal (bringing Lisa into the Hub) has nothing to do with Jack whatsoever. He may have used and manipulated Jack, but if we listen to Machiavelli, it’s completely justified. He did it to save his lover, and he did it without wishing to harm anyone else. He was truly convinced that he could save her.
Honestly, that’s what makes a Companion. The steadfastness, the capacity for love, the passion and the fire. Jack knows this, recognizes it for what it is, and that is why he can forgive Ianto.
Later, Ianto betrays Jack again when the team goes to open the rift, and again in giving Gwen the location of Flat Holm, and again in the House of the Dead (if you consider this to be canon). Each time, it was to save the world, or Jack, or both.
Opening the rift in End of Days was supposed to save the world. Lisa doesn’t tell Ianto that she’ll come back if he opens the rift. No, she says, “There's only one way to stop this, before things get worse. People will die, Ianto. Thousands of people. Unless you open the Rift.”
Disobeying Jack’s obvious stance on Gwen’s involvement in Flat Holm was for the betterment of the island itself (I’m convinced that, while he doesn’t think Gwen will give up, he also thinks she can help) and to lessen the burden on Jack.
In The House of the Dead, Ianto lies outright to Jack in order to successfully close the rift AND to keep Jack from this suicidal notion of floating in oblivion for the rest of eternity. His last act was his final betrayal and even then, it was for the greater good of the people he loves.
This is why, despite his previous experience with betrayal and its relative pain, Jack can forgive and stand by Ianto fully trusting in him. He may not be able to trust that Ianto will always be honest, or follow orders, but he can trust that Ianto has his (and the world’s) best interests at heart. Ianto makes Jack feel like he can be as good as the Doctor, if not better, and that’s extremely important to his character.
Now, some other things about Jack (and, vaguely, time).
A common thing I’ve seen in both fic and discussion is Jack’s supposed inability to use modern technology. I know, I’m pretty sure I’ve used it before myself. But I was considering it last night, and it doesn’t really make sense.
I understand that, when familiar with advanced technology, archaic forms are more difficult to master despite their “simplicity” and limited natures. Say we were sent back in time and had to craft something. I know I would be at a loss if settled in front of a loom and told to work it, despite my ability to use a contemporary sewing machine.
However, if you sent me back in time and I spent years around people who used looms, if I watched those looms being invented and advertised and settled into homes, of course I would be able to figure it out. It’s no different than any new invention now. We don’t have inbred knowledge of how it works – we learn. Jack has spent over a hundred years on Earth (I’m counting only time spent active and…not buried underground). There is no reason why he’d be incapable of using a microwave. Not in 2008, at any rate. Perhaps when he first had to use one, sure, but not after decades of their existence in society.
Jack is extremely intelligent. He is not only educated, he’s street smart. He’s had more experiences than most people, even before becoming a fixed point. A clever man whose lived through a chain of inventions. He’s watched, slowly, the world go from the Teleprinter to the iPhone. He’s probably had to use everything in between at some point or another. It’s like the montage in Fragments. (Here from 7:08-7:51).
Another thing I see a lot of, and have abused myself, is the concept of Jack’s memory. Do I think it possible for Jack to remember Ianto in “a thousand years’ time” without actively and constantly working at it? No, of course not. But it’s not impossible to imagine that he can recall 160 years’ time with a good deal of accuracy.
I know it’s difficult for us to imagine due to two things: youth and old age. Personally, I don’t remember much of when I was five years old. I am twenty four now. This doesn’t mean that my brain only has the capacity to store nineteen years of information. However, at five, my brain was developing and I was learning so many high-level concepts that everything else was quickly forgotten in favor of things like effective communication and socially acceptable behaviors.
And then, at the end of one’s life, memory fades. It doesn’t have as much to do with the amount of time that has passed, but the deterioration of the brain itself.
Jack’s brain has been preserved at the capacity and health of someone in their 30s/40s. His capacity for memory is huge and the added knowledge that he has to remember certainly helps. It isn’t endless storage space (unless being fixed point also “fixes” his memories for eternity, which would be an interesting concept to explore), and it certainly would require effort, but it’s not impossible.
I don’t imagine that he’d remember everything ever. I sure as hell can’t recall what I had for breakfast last week, or even what the last movie I saw in theaters might have been, but that is all trivial information. If Jack considers something important enough to remember, I have absolutely no doubts that he would be able to accomplish it for a good length of time.
And that’s…well, that’s all I have to say for now.
*Wanders off*
